We have an interesting little problem here in Virginia which pits the rights of one group against the rights of another. In Virginia, quite a bit of our land was provided to private owners by Crown Grants from Kings of England in the 1700s back before the United States, was in fact the United States. My own farm was in fact, a Crown Grant from the King, and is traceable in our court house as such. The last farm I sold in Virginia was also. These grants state that the riverbeds of that land are also owned by the landowner. However, Virginia Law generally considers that waterways belong to the Commonwealth of Virginia, although there is a brief reference to the "bottom of the riverbeds belonging to Crown Grant holders".
In Virginia, we have a Constitutional right to hunt and to fish, so this is serious business to a lot of Virginians. Recently, a number of landowners have sued fly fishermen who have stood upon their land and riverbeds.
This is a sticky situation. On the one hand, as a landowner, every time someone hurts themselves on my property, they tend to sue,or try to sue, even if they are here without permission and are trespassing, and so I see the need to restrict access to property. On the other hand, how does a man standing in waders in a river adjacent to my property, who fishes in accordance with the fishing license issued to him by the Commonwealth of Virginia hurt me ?
We need some kind of a revisitation and a meaningful policy under Virginia Law. regarding this matter.
This is more information on this issue:
http://midcurrent.com/conservation/virginia-anglers-sued-in-jackson-river-access-suit/
http://www.bayjournal.com/article/anglers_across_nation_watching_va_crown_grant_case
http://www.readthehook.com/106985/foggy-bottom-river-rights-case-could-impact-virginia-economy
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| The James River in Virginia |
6 comments:
I'm for landowner's first. Land ownership is a right. Fishing and hunting are a privileges. Besides, the DNR has never paid ME for the crops "THEIR" deer ate!
Jane - It must be a "sticky situation" indeed. I can't imagine having to sue a fisherman who is fishing in free flowing river.
Do you think that possibly we are becoming a me-and-mine type of people, who focus more on what is "ours", than what has been provided for us ALL by the good Lord? Where a "law" supersedes our planets bounty?
Personally, I believe that whatever is taken from / given by me (be that by bugs / people / animals) is the tithe we were instructed to share.
And perhaps if we weren't all so focused on "stock piling" (even when we have more than enough already) there could possibly be less starvation on this planet - human and animal starvation...
Very interesting - thank you for sharing.
Dani, I don't think it is as simple as our becoming a me and mine kind of people. I normally would not have a problem with someone with a fishing license standing in my river bed. (If I actually HAD a river bed) However, landowners have found that when people trespass without permission, they bring drugs, trash, alcohol, and then they hunt illegally, leaving carcasses,or not using the animal they killed for sport at all. When they are confronted by landowners, they are mouthy and threatening. This is why often trespassers wound up in my region, shot to death, as they are perceived as a threat. Sometimes they try to plant and harvest marijuana here. In addition, I have learned on our farm that someone who is walking such a secluded place is probably casing the place in order to rob it, or with an eye to abducting one of us. I have also had people who ride their horses on our farm and then when they hurt themselves on a rock there, told me they were going to sue us.I have also had someone attempt to illegally harvest an entire forest of timber in one area. He is in prison now. For this reason, anyone trespassing here will be prosecuted, and I have done so. I am afraid a percentage of this is to preserve safety in an area with one sheriff. There is also another law here. If someone is able to consistently use a path or region, then they are able to consider it an habitual path for their own use, and this is something we try to guard against also, because it devalues the property we are paying taxes on.
On our other property in Canada, we are more flexible. There is less of a culture of suing everyone, and since there is 10% or less of the population we have in the US, there are fewer people. If people do need to walk across or try to get a dog back or something, then they ask, and usually we make a new friend.
I think this largely depends on the country and area you live in, and what the problems are there. I am wondering what problems the owners of secluded lands which have substantial rivers across them have experienced which made them become so inflexible.
I do support landowners rights. I pay considerable taxes in order to preserve these places as wilderness, and although someone who asks would likely be given permission, no one ever does. Then, when trespassers come, things start to disappear. This is why my neighbors simply shoot trespassers. I just prosecute. We only shoot those who are in our house when we are.
Wow!
..."that when people trespass without permission, they bring drugs, trash, alcohol, and then they hunt illegally, leaving carcasses,or not using the animal they killed for sport at all. When they are confronted by landowners, they are mouthy and threatening. This is why often trespassers wound up in my region, shot to death, as they are perceived as a threat. Sometimes they try to plant and harvest marijuana here. In addition, I have learned on our farm that someone who is walking such a secluded place is probably casing the place in order to rob it, or with an eye to abducting one of us"
...sounds like South Africa LOL S'funny one never hears about this aspect of America here. But maybe that's also because our broadcasting stations are full of our own problems?
Very, very interesting to get this point of view on the Us of A. Thank you.
Dani, Thanks for your understanding. Had I grown up in Canada, I would find the attitude of many large landowners here unfathomable. Unfortunately,the US has been a culture in decline for many years now. Some schools simply warehouse children and don't teach good citizenship in any setting, let alone in forests. Some families abrogated their responsibilities to teaching their children much of anything a long time ago. The US is like most places in that there are people who do very good things here, and there are groups of people who have no concern for anyone but themselves. There is a reason that the US has the largest number of people in prisons per population of all of the developed nations. Thanks for your posts !
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